for the kenochoric asker, as a fellow kenic individual:
kenochoric is a neogender, which is not considered under xenogender. they may overlap, and may go hand in hand even, but the rule of thumb is that xenos =/= neos.
i'm pretty sure you can be outherine in any capacity and fit any neogender, considering the concept of neogenders is, simply put, that they're New Genders (you can read more here), while xenogender is understood as "an umbrella term for non-binary gender identities that cannot be fully described through their relation to concepts typically used to describe gender such as male, female, woman, man, masculinity, femininity, androgyny, neutrality, agenrinity, or outherinity." (from here)
in practice, xenogenders have been expanded to function alongside neogenders, but xeninity is meant to "fill the gap" of gender experiences. neogenders, on the other hand, are their standalone, new thing. "future" genders, if you will (/lh /silly). all this to say, your kenochoric identity can exist on itself alongside your outherine identity no problem in the slightest, no contradiction even. ofc you can do whatever you want forever, but yeah !
just wanted to add some to the conversation, since i'm very interested in kenochoric and it's a neoumbrella i treasure !! hope this made sense hahah
Xenogenders are neogenders. So are any terms that have been coined from 2000 and onward. The coiner themselves said so. Unless I’m reading it wrong which is likely, because the definition is really hard to read and understand for me.
What I don’t agree with is the coiner claiming “MOGAI” genders only fall under neogenders. MOGAI, I thought, was coined to include as many queer identities as possible. Because of that, the definition for neogender is insinuating that MOGAI was coined as a way to exclude people. MOGAI doesn’t mean identities coined recently. It’s literally for marginalized identities, so nonbinary (not a neogender) would fall under it. That bothers me a lot!
But yes, kenochoric and outherine can exist alongside each other. That can happen with just about any gender.
- 💙💚
I… don’t really understand what the neogender coiner [that is the coiner, right] is saying either. Honestly, for years I tried to explain the concept that you can have an autonomous gender identity that isn’t inherently xenogender, but I don’t think I ever did that good of a job :/ words are hard for me including right now where I’m about to be a huge nerd about gender umbrellas
I [badly, I’d imagine, I don’t really remember lol] explained a few years ago that kenochoric is a neogender [gender that is New] but it isn’t inherently xenogender. This is true! It is a “newer” gender, so it does fit under neogender, but it isn’t innately xenoine, just like it isn’t masculine, feminine, outherine, or whatever inherently. It inspired some more neogender umbrellas that are autonomous to themselves, and it felt sooo good. I love that neogender umbrellas caught on in concept, it makes me feel so much more seen and understood as a person! I saw people relate to the same feeling I was having, and it made me feel less alone. Like I wasn’t just… being weird, or something. Neogender, in the way I saw it being used at the time, was just Any Gender That Is Kinda New. But honestly, beyond neogender, beyond anything else, it’s just…. a gender, yannow? And an umbrella term. Neogender was just my way of still trying to tie it into MOGAI in some sense.
BUT. That’s not to say that these things Can’t be xenic, or outherine, or anything else, for other people; gender is weird and incredibly personal for everyone. I used to consider my kenosity masculine. Now, I consider it a fully standalone thing alongside being a man and a woman. Part of why the community started to be harder for me over time was that I felt like I had to battle technicalities and a bunch of arguing over veeeery specific definitions for something that.. well, for me, has always been its own standalone thing that’s not easy to explain. That’s just how gender is for me, I guess! It’s a weird vibe, it’s a personal identity, not something I can perfectly write down and explain all the perfect reasons why it’s this and not that. It’s like trying to fight a dictionary definition with your personal experiences, and I guess for me, defining gender identity on its own is hard enough
I’d get people saying, well, isn’t this thing you coined to not be a xenogender a xenogender for this technical, by-the-books reason? And it felt demoralizing because I was coining… the thing that I am. The personal experience I go through and live through, and I know what I am and am not! It felt frustrating to have that questioned because it doesn’t fit with someone else’s idea of what the thing I made should be. I don’t know why I’m not xenoine, or xenogender, in the same way that I don’t know why I’m not agender or something. I’m just not. Some people just aren’t. Some terms just aren’t. Saying “well it TECHNICALLY falls under this so it is!” flies in the face of the entire concept of personal identity. It’s how you run into exclusionism in the first place; how is gendervoid different from agender? How is gendernull different? How are bi, pan, ply, omni all different? Does it really matter, do we need to come up with totally different definitions to justify it? I think the answer is simple: people are what they say they are, and the terms they create to describe themselves are better explained by those people’s lived experiences and autonomy than by a technicality, than by making things “fit better” or “make better sense” to others
Then I saw people take this and run with it, twist it into it being “only its own thing! can’t be anything else for other people!” and that’s equally disastrous. Neogender isn’t a “better” term and MOGAI encompasses a looooot more genders than just neogenders. Besides, xenogender IS a neogender! I always saw xenogender as one of many umbrella terms under the label, they’re all huddled around in their little orbs and sometimes they can bleed into each other for certain people. They’re self contained on their own, you don’t have to be x to be y, but you can be both, you can be multiple, you can be all or none! Maybe I sound pretentious or just stupid, but I really do think people need to relax on hard-cut definitions a little bit. Neogender versus xenogender shouldn’t be so based on technicalities and excluding this or that, it should be based on what people’s experiences are… you know? Sorry I have no idea if this makes any sense it’s 4 AM here LOL!!